The scale of resources required for intervention measures is actually not large. If done efficiently, it won’t significantly impact our domestic aid. But efficiency is key. You can distribute useless water pumps to villages without food, but that won’t help anyone.
Tucker Carlson: Yes, I think you make a valid point. The aid to Africa over the past 60 years has proven this, despite declining life expectancy. But as a moral issue, how can you justify worrying about malaria while your cousin is addicted to Xanax? Shouldn’t you address that problem first?
SBF: If I could, I would. But at the end of the day, we each have a responsibility. If I know my cousin well and know how to solve the problem, then I absolutely have a responsibility to do that. But if I’ve tried and am powerless to make progress, and I can save lives internationally, or someone else can, then I don’t think that undermines the good they can do internationally, even if they can’t solve their own family issues.
Tucker Carlson: Okay, I see your point. I don’t think that’s a crazy perspective. One last question: Can you think of a recent clear success in an international aid project?
SBF: To some extent, yes, but I won’t specify which project. It’s not a government project, but some private initiatives. In fact, malaria is a great example. Through mainly private donations, the global incidence of malaria has significantly decreased, especially in Africa and India, potentially saving hundreds of thousands of lives each year, with an average cost of several thousand dollars per life saved. In relative terms, that’s an astounding success. We’re not talking about a trillion dollars, but rather billions of dollars, with funds used for malaria prevention through very careful work. Of course, you can also see some government projects that are completely ineffective. If you’re looking for a successful government project, the Marshall Plan might be a good example—although that dates back a long time—it was hugely successful in rebuilding Germany after World War II.
Tucker Carlson: Yes, although we may have ruined all that by blowing up the Nord Stream pipeline. But you’re right. How old are you now?
SBF: To be honest, I have to think about it. In prison, time becomes blurry; every day feels the same as the one before. The answer is, tomorrow is my birthday, so I am currently 32 years old, but I will soon be 33.
Tucker Carlson: How do you plan to celebrate your birthday?
SBF: I don’t celebrate. I didn’t really celebrate birthdays when I was outside, and celebrating another year in prison doesn’t excite me.
Tucker Carlson: So you won’t tell Diddy tomorrow is your birthday? I don’t believe that.
SBF: Maybe someone else will tell him, but I have no intention of doing so.
Tucker Carlson: Well, you’ll be 33 tomorrow. If you’re not pardoned, how old will you be when you get out, given the current situation?
SBF: That’s a complicated calculation, and I’m not entirely clear on the details, as there is the possibility of sentence reduction. If you simply add my sentence to my age, the answer is close to 50.
Tucker Carlson: Can you handle that?
SBF: Sorry, I misspoke. If you account for all possible reductions, it might be in my 50s. But the correct answer is that I was 32 when convicted, with a sentence of 25 years, so I’d be 57.
Tucker Carlson: You’ve been incarcerated for 2 years, leaving you with 23 years. Do you think you can last that long?
SBF: That’s a good question. I’m not sure. The hardest part is having nothing meaningful to do here. You see, studies show that the suicide rate in prisons is about three times that of normal circumstances. So, 25 years multiplied by 3, plus my age at conviction of 32, might give you an answer. Maybe.
Tucker Carlson: I find that a bit strange. You might be the most extreme example I’ve talked to of someone jumping from one world to an entirely different one. You were once in the world of digital currency, and now you’re in a world without money. What is the medium of exchange in prison?
SBF: You know, it’s whatever people have on hand. For example, muffins, those little plastic-wrapped muffins you see at gas station counters, sitting in a plastic ball, with individually packaged muffins that have been at room temperature for a week. Imagine something like that; that’s the standard. Or a packet of ramen soup, or a packet of what looks like disgusting fish soaked in oil, also at room temperature.
Tucker Carlson: So, you’ve transitioned from cryptocurrency to a muffin economy. Right. How do you compare the two? Clearly, muffins are harder to circulate internationally, but what do you think of them as a currency?
SBF: In the short term, it’s unlikely that muffins will become a global reserve currency. They are a demand currency, with no other use and not much intrinsic value. But at the end of the day, they have some interchangeability. While not fully interchangeable, they’re close enough. Two muffins are about the same, so you can trade them. As long as the transaction amount doesn’t exceed $5, they can still be used. But if you want to make a $200 transaction with muffins, that’s impractical.
Tucker Carlson: Too cumbersome.
SBF: Right. One thing you quickly realize is that everything in prison is scaled down. You see people fighting over a banana, not because they care that much about the banana but because they have no other outlet.
Tucker Carlson: That sounds brutal. Do you eat those muffins, or do you just trade them?
SBF: I just trade them. I don’t eat them. I mainly eat rice, beans, and ramen.
Tucker Carlson: It seems like that works for you. Do you have any tattoos?
SBF: No, I don’t. I know some people do, but I don’t have any myself.
Tucker Carlson: Have you thought about it?
SBF: I have thought about getting a tattoo. But after talking to my cellmates about their sterilization procedures—or the lack thereof—the idea was dismissed. I’m not interested in tattoos; it’s not worth the risk of hepatitis. They probably sterilize the needle after using it on four or five people.
Tucker Carlson: Okay, so you won’t get a tattoo. Since you’re cut off from the outside world and facing a 23-year sentence, I’m curious—those people you’ve helped—I’m saying, you went to prison for hurting people, but you also helped many in Washington by donating millions. Have any of them called you to say, “Good luck, hope you’re doing well,” or have they said nothing?
SBF: Right after the collapse, I received many kind messages, including from some people in Washington. But six months later, no one contacted me. By the time of the trial, I was in prison, and there was no further communication. It became too politically sensitive, and people were unwilling to risk contacting me. I’ve even heard people speak well of me in private, but no one is willing to reach out directly.
Tucker Carlson: Has anyone reached out to you? I noticed someone I thought was your girlfriend testified against you. Do you have loyal friends supporting you, or is it almost none?
SBF: Yes, but very few. I later realized that anyone close to me ultimately faced threats. They were told there were two options, one of which could mean decades of imprisonment. Ryan Salem is the most heartbreaking example and also the most disgusting from the government’s perspective. They accused him of some completely absurd crimes. He said, “No, we’ll see each other in court.” So the government came back and said, “Well, what about your pregnant wife? What if we imprison her?” So he pled guilty because the government threatened to jail his wife. No legal system would allow the prosecution to do that. And he wasn’t even charged with most of the crimes the other guilty pleas included. Ryan didn’t testify at the trial because he didn’t want to lie or say what the government wanted him to say. As a result, he received a sentence four times longer than the other three combined. The message conveyed couldn’t be clearer. Was it because he is a Republican, or because he refused to cooperate with the government’s lies at trial? Those are the only two reasons I can think of for why he received a seven-and-a-half-year sentence.
Tucker Carlson: That’s disgusting. I’ve interviewed him at home. I feel like they also charged his wife. What they did is utterly immoral.
SBF: I completely agree. They broke their promise, completely shattering any notion of integrity they may have had. It’s appalling. He is a good person, and he shouldn’t have to endure this.
Tucker Carlson: Are you aware that the outside world changes so quickly? By the time you get out, the world may be completely different from when you left. For example, with the development of AI, it sounds like we are approaching artificial general intelligence (AGI) or some kind of singularity.
SBF: Yes, I feel that deeply. It’s a sense of the world moving on while you are left behind.
Tucker Carlson: Having children is part of your effective altruism philosophy?
SBF: No. Different people in the community have different views on this. Over the past five years, I felt like I had about 300 children—my employees. Clearly, I can’t treat them all like a father, but I feel responsible for them. I’m very saddened by the destruction of their work. But when running FTX, I had almost no personal life. Now in prison, I clearly have no conditions to have children.
Tucker Carlson: Did any of those 300 employees come to visit you in prison?
SBF: No. I think the answer is no. One or two people might have come.
Tucker Carlson: You might want to consider having a few real children at some point because when things get tough, they will be there for you.
SBF: That gets me thinking about what real reliance is and the extent to which intimidation tactics can reach in certain systems in our country. But it also makes me realize how important it is to have people to rely on.
Tucker Carlson: Others are everything. SBF, I appreciate you accepting this interview, possibly your only one where you aren’t pressed about business since that’s someone else’s concern. But I’m glad we talked about these things, and I hope you send our regards to Diddy.
SBF: Will do.
Tucker Carlson: I can hardly believe you and Diddy are in the same prison.
SBF: I know, right? If someone had told me three years ago that I would be spending every day with Diddy, I would have found that amusing. I wonder if he is involved in cryptocurrency too?
Tucker Carlson: Life is strange. I wish you all the best, thank you. It seems YouTube is suppressing this show. From one perspective, that’s not surprising; that’s what they do. But from another perspective, it’s shocking. With so much change happening in the world, in our economy and politics, on the brink of war, Google decides you should receive less information, not more. That is completely wrong. Tomorrow, what can you do? We can complain, but that would be a waste of time. We can’t control Google. Or we can find ways around it so you can truly get real information, not intentionally misleading information.
Interview video link
This article is reproduced with permission from Lidu BlockBeats.
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